Resource National Dex Viability Rankings

Why is :skarmory: above :corviknight:? Don't they just do the same thing? Also, is it :greninja-ash:(like the transformation) or Greninja-Bond(the one with only stat boosts and no transformation)?
Kyo i indeed was right

Skarmory and Corviknight may be the same typing but what they do are significantly more different. Skarmory is a much sturdier defensive wall than what Corviknight is, allowing it to do things that Corviknight is not capable of doing such as dealing with most of the strong physical attackers more reliably such as Baxcalibur, M-Tyranitar, M-Lopunny, Sneasler and others while also providing Spikes support.

Corviknight on the other hand lacks the physical bulk that Skarmory has but makes up for a more respectable Special Defense stat that lets it check things like Tapu Lele and use it as an opportunity to U-Turn, it may have been on a defogging duty ever since it was introduced but with the presence of Gholdengo, Corviknight has been relegated to being a U-Turn machine (just pivot in and out) in which options like Tornadus-Therian or Zapdos are usually better at since they're actually capable of doing something to what they're answering. It has also been experimenting with stuff like Sub Bulk Up due to Bloodmoon Ursaluna and also being a Gholdengo bait since most people would send it out expecting a defog but overall the mon is just really bad and has been memed on due to the high usage it's been getting despite being not that great.

The Ash Greninja reffers to Gen 9 Battle Bond which gives you +1 Atk, Spa and Spe and not the transformed one.
 
Why is :skarmory: above :corviknight:? Don't they just do the same thing? Also, is it :greninja-ash:(like the transformation) or Greninja-Bond(the one with only stat boosts and no transformation)?
No skarm and Corv don't do the same thing, not even close, and Corv is just booty. Its the one with the stat boosts and no transformation
 

thebestever543

I COULD BE BANNED!
Kyo i indeed was right

Skarmory and Corviknight may be the same typing but what they do are significantly more different. Skarmory is a much sturdier defensive wall than what Corviknight is, allowing it to do things that Corviknight is not capable of doing such as dealing with most of the strong physical attackers more reliably such as Baxcalibur, M-Tyranitar, M-Lopunny, Sneasler and others while also providing Spikes support.

Corviknight on the other hand lacks the physical bulk that Skarmory has but makes up for a more respectable Special Defense stat that lets it check things like Tapu Lele and use it as an opportunity to U-Turn, it may have been on a defogging duty ever since it was introduced but with the presence of Gholdengo, Corviknight has been relegated to being a U-Turn machine (just pivot in and out) in which options like Tornadus-Therian or Zapdos are usually better at since they're actually capable of doing something to what they're answering. It has also been experimenting with stuff like Sub Bulk Up due to Bloodmoon Ursaluna and also being a Gholdengo bait since most people would send it out expecting a defog but overall the mon is just really bad and has been memed on due to the high usage it's been getting despite being not that great.

The Ash Greninja reffers to Gen 9 Battle Bond which gives you +1 Atk, Spa and Spe and not the transformed one.
Corv and Skarm have very similar physical bulk with Skarm having the slight edge. No need to exaggerate but I agree Skarm is better. The biggest difference is their functions which boils down to their move pool since Corv isn’t really making use of pressure unless it’s a Stall v Stall mu. Outside of that it’s quite niche this gen, please correct me if I’m wrong. Skarm has hazards and whirlwind. Corv has U-Turn. Corviknight Defog is not very good I’m sure most people agree with this. I think we should bring this up after the suspect is concluded because it’s already under way and will drastically affect Corvs viability and the meta as a whole.
 

Oculars

IT RLY DO BE LIKE THAT SOMETIMES
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Another thing to note is despite having similar bulk physically, corv is more hp based while skarms is more defence based meaning its body press hits a lot harder than corvs, especially at +2 on idef sets.
 

Slowpoke Fan

Slow?
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Nominating
to A-/A (could probably be A+ too).

This is just the mother of all bulky waters in NatDex after the Scarlet and Violet Teal Mask DLC - it compresses the roles of gen 8 Toxapex and Slowbro (sacrifices future sight support for those big fat wishes) into one package with its massive HP stat, slow speed and great utility moves. I have been using sealoo's Lunar Sand team with mixed Alomomola and it put in absurd amounts of work - it healed teammates wonderfully via wish without eating into its ability to come back for more hits thanks to regenerator, seized momentum with slow flip turns while statusing almost everything with toxic. Speaking of toxic, it is only one of the many viable options for its final moveslot - mirror coat, light screen, magic coat, knock off, scald, and even moves like confide or psych up can be used according to the needs of its teams. I think it is quite clearly the best bulky water in the tier right now and should be ranked accordingly.
 
:Garganacl: to A-
A+ is way too high for this thing, i can't ever find a reason to put this mon on a team, its bulky and has a stupid signature move yes but its rock typing gives it very few resistances and alot of common weaknesses and has to tera to get rid of it, i honestly think it's B but i know it ain't dropping that far

:Ting-Lu: to B-
gliscor is better
 
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:Garganacl: to A-
A+ is way too high for this thing, i can't ever find a reason to put this mon on a team, its bulky and has a stupid signature move yes but its rock typing gives it very few resistances and alot of common weaknesses and has to tera to get rid of it, i honestly think it's B but i know it ain't dropping that far

:Ting-Lu: to B-
gliscor is better
The first one is untrue if it is on a team building around it or a fat team it is a solid wincon and overall great mon. Second one is completely true though.
 
:Garganacl: to A-
A+ is way too high for this thing, i can't ever find a reason to put this mon on a team, its bulky and has a stupid signature move yes but its rock typing gives it very few resistances and alot of common weaknesses and has to tera to get rid of it, i honestly think it's B but i know it ain't dropping that far
Lol. Sounds like a you issue.

Garg is a pillar of many balance teams for the immense defensive value it brings and the potent progress forcing. Base rock isn't amazing, but the high natural bulk let's it get by off of neutralities to still check pokemon, and it has many useful resistances that make it a great check to mons like Tornadus, Zapdos, Heatran, Volcarona (some match ups not all), even potentially zardY, and it dominates slow passive mons like little else. Protect variants have great longevity and spread chip easily, especially when backed by spikes and a good garg player really doesn't have to tera all the time. But it helps that it CAN tera so well, because it lets it act as a great blanket check if need be for a team depending on what that team is most weak to (for example rain). Set up garg is a very potent wincon on balance as well.

This is all without considering that this mon only got BETTER with Gholdengo being banned as it lost a premier answer (covert cloak dhengo).
 
:baxcalibur: Baxcalibur: A to A+. It is the most difficult threat to counter in the metagame right now, even before Gholdengo's ban. Not much counterplay against a well-built team, unless if you use Scizor-Mega yourself. Tera pushes the issue further.

:Ogerpon-Wellspring: Ogerpon-Wellspring: A to A+. Bulkier versions with Spikes are also very good, has a great matchup against the whole metagame. Very frustrating mon to face.

:Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: A to A+. This version of Ursaluna is very difficult to play around and it claims at least one kill per game, while chipping with Vacuum Wave before fainting. Some kind of CM/Blood Moon/EP/Hyper Voice sets started to appear as well, as Normal/Ground that can hit Ghosts is excellent neutral coverage, it can choose between two different Normal STABs depending on the game state. All those Substitute Flying Pokemon are invalidated.

:alomomola: Alomomola: B+ to A-. It did improve a lot but well-built teams put enough pressure on Alomomola to prevent it from Wishpassing several times in a game. It also faces competition with Toxapex and the latter has some advantages, namely higher overall bulk, instant recovery, poison typing, toxic Spikes, and perhaps most importantly Haze. In a metagame where we have to get the most value from each teamslot, imo Toxapex provides more defensive value.

:diancie-mega: Diancie-Mega: B+ to A-. Nothing switches into this safely. 4 Attacks hits everything in the metagame super effectively.

:ting-lu: Ting-Lu: B+ to lower. Not on the same level as Pokemon such as Charizard-Y.

Gholdengo's ban might drastically change the metagame, but these are my thoughts from before the ban and I wanted to post my nominations. For sure some of them are still valid (e.g. Baxcalibur, Ursaluna-Bloodmoon, Diancie-Mega).
 
Lol. Sounds like a you issue.

Garg is a pillar of many balance teams for the immense defensive value it brings and the potent progress forcing. Base rock isn't amazing, but the high natural bulk let's it get by off of neutralities to still check pokemon, and it has many useful resistances that make it a great check to mons like Tornadus, Zapdos, Heatran, Volcarona (some match ups not all), even potentially zardY, and it dominates slow passive mons like little else. Protect variants have great longevity and spread chip easily, especially when backed by spikes and a good garg player really doesn't have to tera all the time. But it helps that it CAN tera so well, because it lets it act as a great blanket check if need be for a team depending on what that team is most weak to (for example rain). Set up garg is a very potent wincon on balance as well.

This is all without considering that this mon only got BETTER with Gholdengo being banned as it lost a premier answer (covert cloak dhengo).
made my post right before dengo was banned
 
Some background is I haven't played nat dex very much and wanted to ask the reasoning for a couple placements. I have played a lot of the previous gens OU's however.

slitherwing.png
Slither Wing on paper to me seems like a pretty strong attacker with its priority, strong stab and recovery + bulk. Why isn't it ranked at all?
tyranitar-mega.png
Why is Mega Tyranitar so much higher than regular Ttar? In past gens I always saw the opposite.
sneasel.png
(just assume the pic is Sneasler I couldn't find its sprite) What makes Sneasler so good? To me it seems its lack of bulk would hold it back even with unburden + an insane speed stat. It does have a pretty great attack stat but nothing astronomical.

corviknight.png
What makes Corviknight so bad in the current meta? From what I've seen in every meta besides this one, its been a staple.
hippowdon.png
Hippowdown being ranked so low. Is it purely just a product of being outclassed by Great Tusk?
 
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sealoo

PaulGod
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Some background is I haven't played nat dex very much and wanted to ask the reasoning for a couple placements. I have played a lot of the previous gens OU's however.

View attachment 567248Slither Wing on paper to me seems like a pretty strong attacker with its priority, strong stab and recovery + bulk. Why isn't it ranked at all?
View attachment 567250Why is Mega Tyranitar so much higher than regular Ttar? In past gens I always saw the opposite.
View attachment 567251(just assume the pic is Sneasler I couldn't find its sprite) What makes Sneasler so good? To me it seems its lack of bulk would hold it back even with unburden + an insane speed stat. It does have a pretty great attack stat but nothing astronomical.

View attachment 567252What makes Corviknight so bad in the current meta? From what I've seen in every metabesides this one, its been a staple.
View attachment 567253Hippowdown being ranked so low. Is it purely just a product of being outclassed by Great Tusk?
:slither-wing: Slither Wing unfortunately struggles with many tier staples in Landorus-T, Gliscor, Toxapex, Zapdos, and Tornadus-T. This in conjunction with a relatively middling speed stat gives it very little advantage over other powerful Fighting-type options such as Mega Medicham, Mega Lopunny, and Zamazenta.

:tyranitar-mega: This is pretty much exclusively because stats. The attack is a huge boost of course, but also less speed investment was required to outrun the (now banned) Gholdengo, but also was essential for Heatran and Rotom-W without cutting into your bulk too much. The extra bulk is helpful in a pinch vs threats like Mega Diancie and Hisuian Samurott. Additionally, mega slots generally are less valuable than previous generations with the ability to Tera being sacrificed when using a mega.

:sneasler: In SVOU, Rillaboom is essentially the sole terrain setter that Sneasler can benefit from. However, in ND, it also receives screen support from Tapu Koko as well as some nicher teammates with Tapu Lele and Tapu Fini, all of which can mitigate this poor bulk. Sneasler is an excellent mon but can also struggle with priority from the likes of Mega Lopunny, Mega Medicham, and the improved Weavile as compared to SVOU.

:corviknight: With Gholdengo around, Corviknight had a very tough time justifying itself, while also being punished for pivoting by Zapdos and Moltres. With Gholdengo gone? We'll see how it does, but it still struggles with passivity issues and the Roost PP nerf is felt heavily.

:hippowdon: Hippowdon is not outclassed by Great Tusk necessarily, but it does struggle to cement a place vs Gliscor. Gliscor not only competes with Hippo for a slot on the fatter builds they are found on, but also gets free switch-in opportunities on it.
 
:Banette-Mega: to D
a mon that only fits on fat and some balance teams should not be a+, thats way too high
Awful take. A pokemon that comfortably fits on and does well on every single playstyle is by definition an S tier Pokemon such as gholdengo. A+ is perfectly fine for garg, it is a very common and splashable pokemon on some of the most used playstyles and teams in the meta, not all of them, but it is good enough on those common playstyles that its placement is justified.
 
Onto actual post Gholdengo stuff

:Alomomola: B+ -> A-/A
Mola is great. Really great. While it does have some issues, notably being a mon that can be exploited if over relied on, its a terrific scouting tool and momentum maintainer for balance. The high longevity and ability to spread passive damage with toxic (or scald if you choose) helps further. Toxapex gives it competition, but Mola is genuinely great and I'm glad we have it.

:Tapu Lele: A+ -> S-
Without Gholdengo, the tier has no long lasting steels and thus Lele feels better than it has all generation. Scarf Lele feels like one of the best scarfers in the tier, while specs has fantastic ability to smash slower teams. There's not that much to say.
 

Slowpoke Fan

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Onto actual post Gholdengo stuff

:Alomomola: B+ -> A-/A
Mola is great. Really great. While it does have some issues, notably being a mon that can be exploited if over relied on, its a terrific scouting tool and momentum maintainer for balance. The high longevity and ability to spread passive damage with toxic (or scald if you choose) helps further. Toxapex gives it competition, but Mola is genuinely great and I'm glad we have it.

:Tapu Lele: A+ -> S-
Without Gholdengo, the tier has no long lasting steels and thus Lele feels better than it has all generation. Scarf Lele feels like one of the best scarfers in the tier, while specs has fantastic ability to smash slower teams. There's not that much to say.
Glad that you've hopped on the Mola train! Do note that Corviknight is a steel type with decent special bulk if invested, as well as how grassy terrain teams supporting Heatran are now easier to build.
 

Kin+ak (✧∇✧)

I COULD BE BANNED!
I do believe ghold ban is good for ttar, for physical walls that had a low spdef And i may do nominations about ttar later next week maybe what is your opinion on ttar?
 

thebestever543

I COULD BE BANNED!
:gliscor: S

I’m going to keep this post short and fair warning I’m typing this spontaneously with my thoughts so here we go.

I genuinely believe Gliscor is the best Pokéman in the tier. And while it’s true that Pokémen like Baxcalibur and Bloodmoon are much more threatening, they do not measure up to Gliscor’s overall viability. It sounds weird, most would assume the Pokéman who is constantly being labeled “broken” would be the most “viable” and I don’t think this is true nor have we followed this rule in the past. Correct me if I’m mistaken, and I don’t mean to say that none of the most “ban worthy” Pokémen in the past were labeled most viable, I just don’t believe it is always true. With that being said, let us look at why Gliscor is the MOST viable. Funny way to phrase it lol.

Gliscor is likely the most splashable Pokéman in the tier. And I think immediately one reason that might be is the fact that every builder slots an electric immunity somewhere and Gliscor just so happens to be a ground type! And better then all the other ground types and electric immunities available in the tier. Compared to the other ground types, Gliscor beats nearly all of them in terms of defensive capabilities. Knock and status absorber, passive recovery, every hazard option and defog. Gliscor already has the best longevity in the tier and it’s an AMAZING tera option. It has to be said. It can run tera fairy, water and sometimes normal if you plan to run sd (dunno how I feel about it since defensive sets are much better rn for checking the plethora of threats in the tier). Gliscor will fit on any archetype you want him on apart from offense. It’s hard to say that for any other Pokéman in the tier. He has great role compression, able to run defog, stealth rocks/spikes, physical or special defense, whatever you need he will fit on your team.

Simply put there is no Pokéman like Gliscor and none that rival its consistency. This was painful for me to write considering I absolutely hate this Pokéman bu
 
:gliscor: S

I’m going to keep this post short and fair warning I’m typing this spontaneously with my thoughts so here we go.

I genuinely believe Gliscor is the best Pokéman in the tier. And while it’s true that Pokémen like Baxcalibur and Bloodmoon are much more threatening, they do not measure up to Gliscor’s overall viability. It sounds weird, most would assume the Pokéman who is constantly being labeled “broken” would be the most “viable” and I don’t think this is true nor have we followed this rule in the past. Correct me if I’m mistaken, and I don’t mean to say that none of the most “ban worthy” Pokémen in the past were labeled most viable, I just don’t believe it is always true. With that being said, let us look at why Gliscor is the MOST viable. Funny way to phrase it lol.

Gliscor is likely the most splashable Pokéman in the tier. And I think immediately one reason that might be is the fact that every builder slots an electric immunity somewhere and Gliscor just so happens to be a ground type! And better then all the other ground types and electric immunities available in the tier. Compared to the other ground types, Gliscor beats nearly all of them in terms of defensive capabilities. Knock and status absorber, passive recovery, every hazard option and defog. Gliscor already has the best longevity in the tier and it’s an AMAZING tera option. It has to be said. It can run tera fairy, water and sometimes normal if you plan to run sd (dunno how I feel about it since defensive sets are much better rn for checking the plethora of threats in the tier). Gliscor will fit on any archetype you want him on apart from offense. It’s hard to say that for any other Pokéman in the tier. He has great role compression, able to run defog, stealth rocks/spikes, physical or special defense, whatever you need he will fit on your team.

Simply put there is no Pokéman like Gliscor and none that rival its consistency. This was painful for me to write considering I absolutely hate this Pokéman bu
Not sure how u hate gliscor...
But yes gliscor is undoubtedly the most splashable pokemon in the tier.
 

Oculars

IT RLY DO BE LIKE THAT SOMETIMES
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Alomomola to A/A+
This thing being B+ is actually a fucking crime flip turn on mola is arguably one of the biggest buffs by a single move in competitive Pokemon history.
Having a good wishpasser let's so many mons gain psudorecovery that they would not have otherwise.
second this shamoneamola is such a good support for things like spdef heatran, mega tyranitar, hatterene and ting lu that are bulky and lack recovery
 

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